Comments on: Twitter norming: do you believe in God?

By: lordcsmith

lordcsmith — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 01:06:06 +0000

I didn’t participate in this poll, but came here via search engine. A quick background. I am 34 years old, a man and have a masters in sacred theology. I was ordained in the Orthodox Church. I was raised Baptist/Pentecostal. I am still a practicing Christian. I live in the U.S.
I was curious because I have noticed a big coming out party with the Atheists. In some ways , it may be good. In a lot of ways, the same old crap is coming with a different name. I constantly read the journals of various scientists in different fields. With the great coming out, Atheists have gone on the attack. Most of it appears to be a spirit of revenge. Let me clarify that, by spirit I mean, a general ambience, not a boogey man.
What it really looks like to me is ” haha, I proved your Santa Claus doesn’t exist, because here is the Easter bunny.” Although you guys sound smarter making the claim. Some of you cats give way way way to much credit to Science. Much like the religions, it is full of divisions, debates, open warfare, political agendas, influenced by money, and chocked full of Egos. Every single negative characteristic you attribute to religion, specifically, the Abrahamic faiths, are found in Science as well. You claim religion causes war, but science gives us the weapons. It’s a human conditon, not a religious one.
To cite an example, every Atheist seems to love Richard Dawkins and quotes him often. I read another scientist, cognitive psychologist James Polichak, who picked up his book “the Selfish Gene” and basically pointed out that the guy is openly hostile to religion. Would that not influence his outcomes? He desperately wants to destroy religion, specifically, Christianity. Is he human enough to want to prove and validate his opinion over truth, or is he scientist enough to hold a reservation until he can prove something. Polichak simply points out that the meme that Dawkins claims is the cause of man’s religiosity, which he calls a virus, can be equally applied to kings and presidents. Those are people that have caused just as much, if not more, wars and suffering than religion. Wouldn’t this be akin to science trying to prove that Blacks were mentally inferior, which at one time was held to be true. Or that using natural selection and selective breeding, it would be logically sane and rational to exterminate the sick and mentally inferior to purify and better the human race, the Eugenics proposed by Darwin’s family, Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) and practiced by the Nazis. Seriously, think about this.
I know that the Christians have been horrible at times, they’ve also been exceptional at times. The Catholics pulled us out of the Dark Ages after Rome fell, by unifying Europe in a belief. People work well together when they agree. They botched it when they decided to kill people that didn’t believe enough. Laugh, but this is coming down the pipes again. They built the churches for community togetherness, the homeless shelters, the Universities and the hospitals in the Americas and elsewhere up until about 100 years ago. They’ve healed as many as they’ve killed. which sucks to have to say that. It’s not meant to be redemptive, just a reminder. I know Atheists have a big beef with Christians proselytizing, but it is in their teachings to do so. Just tell the guy I’m not interested and move on. It’s the same with an Amway salesman. He’s just excited to be talking about what he’s learned with someone who might listen to him. He doesn’t know he’s number 15 of a long line that have pestered you today. Example, I don’t drink alcohol. I was advised not to by my religion, but more importantly, I saw what it did to my father. When I go to a restaurant or a party, or a wedding, I don’t cuss the guy out for offering me a beer. He just wants to connect, and that’s the way he knows how. I might take the drink and commit a party foul by not drinking it, or sometimes I’ll just say “I’ll take a Coke, if ya got one.”
Back to my point, The Christians also started most of the basic sciences that we are now working on. William of Ockham was a Fransiscan monk, you guys like to quote his Ockham’s razor. His simple deduction would have been that God exists. He was just simply saying that we didn’t need to make him bigger than the role we were claiming that he filled, but Carl Sagan mentions him in a book and away we go.
As I stated before, it’s a human conditon. The religions have pointed out that man is rebellious to some force that compels him to act in self-sacrifce to decency. Basically, morality. Religion says it’s a god, Atheists say it isn’t. Science is desperately trying to prove where it comes from, but as yet they can’t agree on it yet. So, essentially, we are still free to believe what we wish. The question I ask myself is once you purge the world of dudes like me, how long before you turn on each other. You will need to sort out who truly believes there is no God, from those that just wanted to be a part of something and those that like being an underdog, and those that just wanted revenge. That was the Inquisition.
I hope that made sense to you. Good Luck!

By: Amber

Amber — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:46:22 +0000

elfinlorien@hotmail.com Just thought i’d add that in for anyone who’d like to talk to me about anything

Love,

~*Amber

By: Sharron

Sharron — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:30:56 +0000

I do believe in God!!!! I have talked to Him many times just as I would talk to you. I have felt His touch before. I could never make it without Him and His Son Jesus. I had a stroke about five years ago and God allowed to to go see Heaven. If you have never had that joy words can not express how beautiful. Without God I have nothing, With Him I have it all!

By: David Earl Clark

David Earl Clark — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:02:33 +0000

One would do better to contemplate exactly why mankind routinely questions “is there is a God?” What chance of circumstance brought us to such a point, yet left all the rest of creation void of lingering doubt and either comforted by childlike faith or sublime indifference?

Yes there is a Creator and he made a Way for us. Not for only those of high intellect to attain, nor for those with abundant means to aquire, but for everyone; regardless of station in life, capacity to fully understand, or inclination toward right or wrong, to approach a higher existance.

Yet for all the in depth searching,one need only look back to the origin of free choice in the garden of Eden and ask ourselves do we as if Gods place our faith in the commandments only given to slay us equally and show our eakness in the flesh…or do we accept the Word of God with childlike faith and escape the unavoidable penalty.
This is the Tree of life, take from it eat freely, and you will never die. But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you cannot eat///lest you surely die.
And He yet He stands and asks every last man and woman at some point… Will you finally Believe Me, and choose to Live?…or will you yet believe a lie?

One simple fact remains yet is overlooked when trying to explain God or describe His reasonings. The creator exists at the end of all things and where we each finish in the grand scheme of things is a past occurance to Him. And the unfairness you sense in this life can oft be explained by realizing that the very one who asks God “why”…may already have the answer for himself in heaven and not wish to alter things in the least.

If you can’t see it at once…by all means read it twice my friends. And by the grace of God through Jesus Christ…choose to live.

By: zak89

zak89 — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:21:25 +0000

Hmm. Good point, @Camille. Wow, imagine that. Atheists like ofther atheists.

That poll is meaningless as far as the general public (even the “Tweeting” public).

@denis: “The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.”

The whole point of religion, eh?

Not much of point using reason or rational when people can get away with absurdities like that.

But I’ll try.

I consider myself quite “religious” by your standards, and I happen to run a web design business. My dad is a senior developer. Many of my Christian friends are involved in the tech industry.

Not to mention the fact the at modern technology and real science have their roots in the Judeo-Christian worldview. Say, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Robert Boyle, Michael Farrady, Samuel Morse, Louise Pastuer, Bacon, Kepler, Pascal, DaVinci, Benjamin Franklin, Mauray, Lord Kelvin, Lister…
http://tinyurl.com/z89t6

So before you accuse religion of being “anit-technology” or “anit-progress”, please throw out this religious crackpot’s theory of gravity. He probably got the idea from praying to an apple on his desk.

By: Camille

Camille — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:33:54 +0000

Did you ever think that most of your twitter followers are like you? Athiest? Just a thought.
Man, some of the comments here are simply rude.
I would love the Internet to be totally transparent someday.

By: Lindsay Larson

Lindsay Larson — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:55:05 +0000

i’m a christian. i came across this post after typing “why do you believe in God?” i wanted to read others testimonies before i fell asleep. i feel a pit in my stomach as i read all of your posts about talking about how God isn’t real. i remember what it used to feel like when i didn’t believe. i will pray that you will all find Christ someday. Not because it’s some happy fix life solution but because He really wants you to know Him.

Good night……

By: Denis

Denis — Tue, 26 May 2009 11:50:49 +0000

Eh Nat, I wish reality was even remotely close to your poll.
Its the internet, it is in a way an advanced society with on average more educated and reasonable people. Those Jesus freaks are not twittering and a lot of them are forbidden from using internet. The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.

If you make this poll on the streets all across the world, you know very well the result will be much different. But sure, things are moving and people really are slowly abandoning religion (mostly thanks to internet and knowledge it provides), but we have a long way to go..

By: Bill Davison

Bill Davison — Mon, 18 May 2009 16:10:27 +0000

The evolution of Witch-Doctors to Archbishops is just another example of nature at work.

Visualise the benighted origins of religiosity; It’s quite obvious that the early Human mind was BOUND to generate mythological imagery of an Elysian nature & from there, receptive, fanciful & PREDACIOUS minds took over.

‘Beliefs’ were surely born of ignorance & fear of the unknown. With this realization, why can’t we all recognise simple basic facts & treat ALL ‘Faiths’ of today as ever they really were – - – Dogmatic preservations of irrational early thought – - – Pure Phantasmic Godswallop!

The PAST is unveiled through time. Of necessity, we must Profit from it, not Perpetuate it!

By: TheBlackCat

TheBlackCat — Sun, 10 May 2009 18:28:40 +0000

Can’t you just feel the love oozing off warna’s post? Please keep up the good work, warna. It is in no small part due to individuals like you that people are leaving religion in droves right now. You show the world that religion does not necessarily lead to peace and love for your neighbors, it can also lead to hatred, intolerance, and total disregard for the lives of anyone who does not share your beliefs. So I thank again you for your enormous help in legitimizing non-religion.

By: warna

warna — Sun, 10 May 2009 11:36:21 +0000

For those who don’t believe in god, please do us a favor. The world is getting crowded. Commit suicide. Help save the earth. And please don’t forget to sign the donor’s form so that other people can make use of your body parts. Sarcasm? I leave it to u to decide. When u dead, u dead. Right? If no god, then why bother?

By: TheBlackCat

TheBlackCat — Sat, 09 May 2009 18:07:49 +0000

@ Srichand: I doubt this is universal, but a friend of mine who is a monotheistic Hindu considers the one God to be Brahma. However, in principle it was very unlike the Judeo-Christian-Muslim concept of an intelligent, judgemental being, instead he described it more as a universal existence that everything stems from, and that the goal of reincarnation is ultimately to return to being part of that existence. I am under the impression that this existence was not a distinct being, but the true, underlying nature of the universe.

@ Brian: Although I am not sure being a gnostic Atheist could be considered 100% certain, there are certainly logical reasons for concluding a perfect, omiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, intelligent creator could not exist (primarily that it leads to a being with multiple sets of mutually exclusive properties). If you loosen the definition of God it becomes more difficult, of course. So although I would not say it is as good a conclusion as agnostic atheism, I would disagree that is is just as religious as theism.

By: Brian Tarricone

Brian Tarricone — Fri, 08 May 2009 22:29:25 +0000

A little confusing/misleading… agnosticism and atheism (and indeed agnosticism and theism) aren’t mutually exclusive. Agnosticism is a declaration of knowledge (rather, an acknowledgment of lack of knowledge), while theism/atheism is a declaration of belief. Unfortunately mass media has mixed this all up such that most people don’t bother with (or even realise there’s) the distinction.

Personally, I’m an agnostic atheist. I have no friggin’ clue whether or not there’s a god, but I (unscientifically) think there probably isn’t. (And frankly I just don’t care about it enough; I don’t consider it an Important Life Question.)

Non-agnostic atheists are just as “religious” as theists.

(Or perhaps I’m just rationalising my averse reaction to being lumped in with the “there is no god, and those who believe in one are idiots” crowd. Those who think they know for a fact that god doesn’t exist are deluding themselves just as much as those who believe in the factual existence of god.)

By: Srichand Pendyala

Srichand Pendyala — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:03:38 +0000

So the Monotheistic Hinduism comment was mine. Hinduism is old enough to have mutated into a million (or so) forms, each only marginally different from another. One of those forms believes that each of the many million gods are just forms or representations of the same essential god. I don’t believe there is a definition of who that single god is, but I’m probably very wrong on that. .

By: TheBlackCat

TheBlackCat — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:01:24 +0000

@ Nat: If you aren’t already aware of them, check to see if there are any humanist or secular humanist associations in your area. They are essentially churches without the religion, allowing for socializing, support, and community building without requiring faith or adherence to dogma along with it like churches do.

By: Nat Friedman

Nat Friedman — Fri, 08 May 2009 13:40:59 +0000

@mjmac – Some prominent atheists like Richard Dawkins have made an effort in recent years to convince people to be more vocal about their atheism, and a lot of online support has emerged for atheism in fora that didn’t exist until a few years ago (like reddit, est. 2005). I think this has pushed some former “agnostics” — who were really secret atheists who didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings — into the publicly-atheist column. And maybe it’s caused some formerly genuine agnostics to think harder about their actual beliefs, and to conclude that they are, in fact, atheists.

We could also speculate that eight years of evangelical Bushism strengthened the opposition culture, which became more vocal about its non-majority views. I’ve always thought that an especially dominant/oppressive main culture can breed strong subcultures, which is why you have Japanese perversion, punks in Salt Lake City, great vegetarian restaurants in Munich, etc.

Or maybe this is just the forward march of progress? Abolitionism, women’s suffrage, civil rights, feminism, gay pride, militant atheists, …

I sort of agree with @lmb that the existence of God is unknowable, but only for certain more theoretical/mathematical definitions of God that I think most theists don’t actually believe. Most theists believe in a “guy in the sky” who is listening to their prayers and who cares about their lives, and who occasionally appears in our world to parcel out land and kill Egyptians and that sort of thing.

And like Xan said, there are an infinite number of unknowable things that transcend our frame of reference, so I also apply Occam here.

Also, @Xan, thanks for reminding me about Russell’s Teapot, that really is great. You might enjoy this lecture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Equfju9kJfA
Although it is a bit insulting to theists.

And whatever its downsides, one of the great things about religion is that it can provide a community infrastructure and a sense of comfort to people who need it. Social connections to other people, sympathy, and comfort are really important to leading a happy and healthy life. Although that community can come with negatives too — bigotry, racism, ignorance, discouraging independent thought.

It’d be great to have more supportive communities/social institutions that are non-theistic.

By: Nil Gradisnik

Nil Gradisnik — Fri, 08 May 2009 09:22:56 +0000

@miguel I’m not sure I understand how the second part of the video is related to the first but it’s funny and sad at the same time. If the video is real, props to Michael for that.

By: iain

iain — Fri, 08 May 2009 09:17:48 +0000

Monotheistic hinduism is the belief that all the millions of hindu deities are just different forms of the one god.

By: Miguel de Icaza

Miguel de Icaza — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:44:03 +0000

Let us all reflect on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyauGeRa5T0

By: Cat (The Marauder)

Cat (The Marauder) — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:31:56 +0000

I voted agnostic, as in my opinion it’s truly impossible for us to know whether or not a deity exists. Sure, anybody can claim the existence of some space wizard and there will be no way for us to disprove them, but I believe that if such a manifestation of power exists, us, in this current state of existence and consciousness — we probably aren’t capable of “seeing god”.

At the University of Arizona, there have been some (seemingly) objective/non-religious studies of consciousness and the possibility of an afterlife, and possible connections to quantum physics. Stuart Hameroff, maybe? Or, maybe Gary Schwartz… either way, while it can be a little far-fetched, it’s at the very least something to think about.
Check these links out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schwartz
http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/

If I remember correctly, one of their studies “found” that certain quantum particles which “may be responsible for consciousness” are still just as active after death. Which doesn’t prove the existence of God, no, but maybe “spirituality” is just very big things happening on a very small scale. Am I even making sense anymore?

Sorry if I’m getting a bit deep here, I’ve a lot of thoughts on this issue, but no real idea how to say it. My point being, though, that I believe it is absolutely impossible for us to know “what’s out there”, at least not while we’re alive. I’ve never been a religious person, I realized that God most likely does not exist when I was about 8 years old. However, that won’t stop me from thinking of the infinite number of possibilities. What’s out there? Most likely nothing at all.

But, I suppose we’ll never know.