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	<title>Comments on: Twitter norming: do you believe in God?</title>
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		<title>By: Sharron</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-5043</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-5043</guid>
		<description>I do believe in God!!!! I have talked to Him many times just as I would talk to you. I have felt His touch before. I could never make it without Him and His Son Jesus. I had a stroke about five years ago and God allowed to to go see Heaven. If you have never had that joy words can not express how beautiful. Without God I have nothing, With Him I have it all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe in God!!!! I have talked to Him many times just as I would talk to you. I have felt His touch before. I could never make it without Him and His Son Jesus. I had a stroke about five years ago and God allowed to to go see Heaven. If you have never had that joy words can not express how beautiful. Without God I have nothing, With Him I have it all!</p>
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		<title>By: David Earl Clark</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-5039</link>
		<dc:creator>David Earl Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-5039</guid>
		<description>One would do better to contemplate exactly why mankind routinely questions &quot;is there is a God?&quot;  What chance of circumstance brought us to such a point, yet left all the rest of creation void of lingering doubt and either comforted by childlike faith or sublime indifference? 

 Yes there is a Creator and he made a Way for us.  Not for only those of high intellect to attain, nor for those with abundant means to aquire, but for everyone; regardless of station in life, capacity to fully understand, or inclination toward right or wrong, to approach a higher existance.

Yet for all the in depth searching,one need only look back to the origin of free choice in the garden of Eden and ask ourselves do we as if Gods place our faith in the commandments only given to slay us equally and show our eakness in the flesh...or do we accept the Word of God with childlike faith and escape the unavoidable penalty.
  This is the Tree of life, take from it eat freely, and you will never die. But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you cannot eat///lest you surely die.
And He yet He stands and asks every last man and woman at some point... Will you finally Believe Me, and choose to Live?...or will you yet believe a lie?

One simple fact remains yet is overlooked when trying to explain God or describe His reasonings.  The creator exists at the end of all things and where we each finish in the grand scheme of things is a past occurance to Him.  And the unfairness you sense in this life can oft be explained by realizing that the very one who asks God &quot;why&quot;...may already have the answer for himself in heaven and not wish to alter things in the least.

If you can&#039;t see it at once...by all means read it twice my friends.  And by the grace of God through Jesus Christ...choose to live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One would do better to contemplate exactly why mankind routinely questions &#8220;is there is a God?&#8221;  What chance of circumstance brought us to such a point, yet left all the rest of creation void of lingering doubt and either comforted by childlike faith or sublime indifference? </p>
<p> Yes there is a Creator and he made a Way for us.  Not for only those of high intellect to attain, nor for those with abundant means to aquire, but for everyone; regardless of station in life, capacity to fully understand, or inclination toward right or wrong, to approach a higher existance.</p>
<p>Yet for all the in depth searching,one need only look back to the origin of free choice in the garden of Eden and ask ourselves do we as if Gods place our faith in the commandments only given to slay us equally and show our eakness in the flesh&#8230;or do we accept the Word of God with childlike faith and escape the unavoidable penalty.<br />
  This is the Tree of life, take from it eat freely, and you will never die. But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you cannot eat///lest you surely die.<br />
And He yet He stands and asks every last man and woman at some point&#8230; Will you finally Believe Me, and choose to Live?&#8230;or will you yet believe a lie?</p>
<p>One simple fact remains yet is overlooked when trying to explain God or describe His reasonings.  The creator exists at the end of all things and where we each finish in the grand scheme of things is a past occurance to Him.  And the unfairness you sense in this life can oft be explained by realizing that the very one who asks God &#8220;why&#8221;&#8230;may already have the answer for himself in heaven and not wish to alter things in the least.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t see it at once&#8230;by all means read it twice my friends.  And by the grace of God through Jesus Christ&#8230;choose to live.</p>
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		<title>By: zak89</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4829</link>
		<dc:creator>zak89</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4829</guid>
		<description>Hmm. Good point, @Camille. Wow, imagine that. Atheists like ofther atheists. 

That poll is meaningless as far as the general public (even the &quot;Tweeting&quot; public).

@denis: &quot;The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.&quot;

The whole point of religion, eh? 

Not much of point using reason or rational when people can get away with absurdities like that.

But I&#039;ll try.

I consider myself quite &quot;religious&quot; by your standards, and I happen to run a web design business. My dad is a senior developer. Many of my Christian friends are involved in the tech industry.

Not to mention the fact the at modern technology and real science have their roots in the Judeo-Christian worldview. Say, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Robert Boyle, Michael Farrady, Samuel Morse, Louise Pastuer, Bacon, Kepler, Pascal, DaVinci, Benjamin Franklin, Mauray, Lord Kelvin, Lister...
       http://tinyurl.com/z89t6

So before you accuse religion of being &quot;anit-technology&quot; or &quot;anit-progress&quot;, please throw out this religious crackpot&#039;s theory of gravity. He probably got the idea from praying to an apple on his desk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. Good point, @Camille. Wow, imagine that. Atheists like ofther atheists. </p>
<p>That poll is meaningless as far as the general public (even the &#8220;Tweeting&#8221; public).</p>
<p>@denis: &#8220;The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.&#8221;</p>
<p>The whole point of religion, eh? </p>
<p>Not much of point using reason or rational when people can get away with absurdities like that.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ll try.</p>
<p>I consider myself quite &#8220;religious&#8221; by your standards, and I happen to run a web design business. My dad is a senior developer. Many of my Christian friends are involved in the tech industry.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact the at modern technology and real science have their roots in the Judeo-Christian worldview. Say, Isaac Newton, Galileo, Robert Boyle, Michael Farrady, Samuel Morse, Louise Pastuer, Bacon, Kepler, Pascal, DaVinci, Benjamin Franklin, Mauray, Lord Kelvin, Lister&#8230;<br />
       <a href="http://tinyurl.com/z89t6" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/z89t6</a></p>
<p>So before you accuse religion of being &#8220;anit-technology&#8221; or &#8220;anit-progress&#8221;, please throw out this religious crackpot&#8217;s theory of gravity. He probably got the idea from praying to an apple on his desk.</p>
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		<title>By: Camille</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4589</link>
		<dc:creator>Camille</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4589</guid>
		<description>Did you ever think that most of your twitter followers are like you? Athiest? Just a thought. 
Man, some of the comments here are simply rude.
I would love the Internet to be totally transparent someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you ever think that most of your twitter followers are like you? Athiest? Just a thought.<br />
Man, some of the comments here are simply rude.<br />
I would love the Internet to be totally transparent someday.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay Larson</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4536</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay Larson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 05:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4536</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m a christian. i came across this post after typing &quot;why do you believe in God?&quot; i wanted to read others testimonies before i fell asleep. i feel a pit in my stomach as i read all of your posts about talking about how God isn&#039;t real. i remember what it used to feel like when i didn&#039;t believe. i will pray that you will all find Christ someday. Not because it&#039;s some happy fix life solution but because He really wants you to know Him. 

Good night......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m a christian. i came across this post after typing &#8220;why do you believe in God?&#8221; i wanted to read others testimonies before i fell asleep. i feel a pit in my stomach as i read all of your posts about talking about how God isn&#8217;t real. i remember what it used to feel like when i didn&#8217;t believe. i will pray that you will all find Christ someday. Not because it&#8217;s some happy fix life solution but because He really wants you to know Him. </p>
<p>Good night&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4485</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 11:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4485</guid>
		<description>Eh Nat,  I wish reality was even remotely close to your poll. 
Its the internet, it is in a way an advanced society with on average more educated and reasonable people. Those Jesus freaks are not twittering and a lot of them are forbidden from using internet. The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.

If you make this poll on the streets all across the world, you know very well the result will be much different. But sure, things are moving and people really are slowly abandoning religion (mostly thanks to internet and knowledge it provides), but we have a long way to go..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh Nat,  I wish reality was even remotely close to your poll.<br />
Its the internet, it is in a way an advanced society with on average more educated and reasonable people. Those Jesus freaks are not twittering and a lot of them are forbidden from using internet. The whole point of religion is to retard technology and progress so that they can continue to flourish.</p>
<p>If you make this poll on the streets all across the world, you know very well the result will be much different. But sure, things are moving and people really are slowly abandoning religion (mostly thanks to internet and knowledge it provides), but we have a long way to go..</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Davison</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4464</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 16:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4464</guid>
		<description>The evolution of Witch-Doctors to Archbishops is just another example of nature at work.

Visualise the benighted origins of religiosity; It&#039;s quite obvious that the early Human mind was BOUND to generate mythological imagery of an Elysian nature &amp; from there, receptive, fanciful &amp; PREDACIOUS minds took over.

&#039;Beliefs&#039; were surely born of ignorance &amp; fear of the unknown. With this realization, why can&#039;t we all recognise simple basic facts &amp; treat ALL &#039;Faiths&#039; of today as ever they really were - - - Dogmatic preservations of irrational early thought - - - Pure Phantasmic Godswallop!

The PAST is unveiled through time. Of necessity, we must Profit from it, not Perpetuate it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The evolution of Witch-Doctors to Archbishops is just another example of nature at work.</p>
<p>Visualise the benighted origins of religiosity; It&#8217;s quite obvious that the early Human mind was BOUND to generate mythological imagery of an Elysian nature &amp; from there, receptive, fanciful &amp; PREDACIOUS minds took over.</p>
<p>&#8216;Beliefs&#8217; were surely born of ignorance &amp; fear of the unknown. With this realization, why can&#8217;t we all recognise simple basic facts &amp; treat ALL &#8216;Faiths&#8217; of today as ever they really were &#8211; - &#8211; Dogmatic preservations of irrational early thought &#8211; - &#8211; Pure Phantasmic Godswallop!</p>
<p>The PAST is unveiled through time. Of necessity, we must Profit from it, not Perpetuate it!</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4426</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 18:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4426</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t you just feel the love oozing off warna&#039;s post?  Please keep up the good work, warna.  It is in no small part due to individuals like you that people are leaving religion in droves right now.  You show the world that religion does not necessarily lead to peace and love for your neighbors, it can also lead to hatred, intolerance, and total disregard for the lives of anyone who does not share your beliefs.  So I thank again you for your enormous help in legitimizing non-religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t you just feel the love oozing off warna&#8217;s post?  Please keep up the good work, warna.  It is in no small part due to individuals like you that people are leaving religion in droves right now.  You show the world that religion does not necessarily lead to peace and love for your neighbors, it can also lead to hatred, intolerance, and total disregard for the lives of anyone who does not share your beliefs.  So I thank again you for your enormous help in legitimizing non-religion.</p>
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		<title>By: warna</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4425</link>
		<dc:creator>warna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 11:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4425</guid>
		<description>For those who don&#039;t believe in god, please do us a favor. The world is getting crowded. Commit suicide. Help save the earth. And please don&#039;t forget to sign the donor&#039;s form so that other people can make use of your body parts.  Sarcasm? I leave it to u to decide. When u dead, u dead. Right? If no god, then why bother?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who don&#8217;t believe in god, please do us a favor. The world is getting crowded. Commit suicide. Help save the earth. And please don&#8217;t forget to sign the donor&#8217;s form so that other people can make use of your body parts.  Sarcasm? I leave it to u to decide. When u dead, u dead. Right? If no god, then why bother?</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4422</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 18:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4422</guid>
		<description>@ Srichand: I doubt this is universal, but a friend of mine who is a monotheistic Hindu considers the one God to be Brahma.  However, in principle it was very unlike the Judeo-Christian-Muslim concept of an intelligent, judgemental being, instead he described it more as a universal existence that everything stems from, and that the goal of reincarnation is ultimately to return to being part of that existence.  I am under the impression that this existence was not a distinct being, but the true, underlying nature of the universe.

@ Brian: Although I am not sure being a gnostic Atheist could be considered 100% certain, there are certainly logical reasons for concluding a perfect, omiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, intelligent creator could not exist (primarily that it leads to a being with multiple sets of mutually exclusive properties).  If you loosen the definition of God it becomes more difficult, of course.  So although I would not say it is as good a conclusion as agnostic atheism, I would disagree that is is just as religious as theism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Srichand: I doubt this is universal, but a friend of mine who is a monotheistic Hindu considers the one God to be Brahma.  However, in principle it was very unlike the Judeo-Christian-Muslim concept of an intelligent, judgemental being, instead he described it more as a universal existence that everything stems from, and that the goal of reincarnation is ultimately to return to being part of that existence.  I am under the impression that this existence was not a distinct being, but the true, underlying nature of the universe.</p>
<p>@ Brian: Although I am not sure being a gnostic Atheist could be considered 100% certain, there are certainly logical reasons for concluding a perfect, omiscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, intelligent creator could not exist (primarily that it leads to a being with multiple sets of mutually exclusive properties).  If you loosen the definition of God it becomes more difficult, of course.  So although I would not say it is as good a conclusion as agnostic atheism, I would disagree that is is just as religious as theism.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tarricone</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4421</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tarricone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4421</guid>
		<description>A little confusing/misleading...  agnosticism and atheism (and indeed agnosticism and theism) aren&#039;t mutually exclusive.  Agnosticism is a declaration of knowledge (rather, an acknowledgment of lack of knowledge), while theism/atheism is a declaration of belief.  Unfortunately mass media has mixed this all up such that most people don&#039;t bother with (or even realise there&#039;s) the distinction.

Personally, I&#039;m an agnostic atheist.  I have no friggin&#039; clue whether or not there&#039;s a god, but I (unscientifically) think there probably isn&#039;t.  (And frankly I just don&#039;t care about it enough; I don&#039;t consider it an Important Life Question.)

Non-agnostic atheists are just as &quot;religious&quot; as theists.

(Or perhaps I&#039;m just rationalising my averse reaction to being lumped in with the &quot;there is no god, and those who believe in one are idiots&quot; crowd.  Those who think they know for a fact that god doesn&#039;t exist are deluding themselves just as much as those who believe in the factual existence of god.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little confusing/misleading&#8230;  agnosticism and atheism (and indeed agnosticism and theism) aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive.  Agnosticism is a declaration of knowledge (rather, an acknowledgment of lack of knowledge), while theism/atheism is a declaration of belief.  Unfortunately mass media has mixed this all up such that most people don&#8217;t bother with (or even realise there&#8217;s) the distinction.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m an agnostic atheist.  I have no friggin&#8217; clue whether or not there&#8217;s a god, but I (unscientifically) think there probably isn&#8217;t.  (And frankly I just don&#8217;t care about it enough; I don&#8217;t consider it an Important Life Question.)</p>
<p>Non-agnostic atheists are just as &#8220;religious&#8221; as theists.</p>
<p>(Or perhaps I&#8217;m just rationalising my averse reaction to being lumped in with the &#8220;there is no god, and those who believe in one are idiots&#8221; crowd.  Those who think they know for a fact that god doesn&#8217;t exist are deluding themselves just as much as those who believe in the factual existence of god.)</p>
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		<title>By: Srichand Pendyala</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4420</link>
		<dc:creator>Srichand Pendyala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 16:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4420</guid>
		<description>So the Monotheistic Hinduism comment was mine. Hinduism is old enough to have mutated into a million (or so) forms, each only marginally different from another. One of those forms believes that each of the many million gods are just forms or representations of the same essential god. I don&#039;t believe there is a definition of who that single god is, but I&#039;m probably very wrong on that. .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the Monotheistic Hinduism comment was mine. Hinduism is old enough to have mutated into a million (or so) forms, each only marginally different from another. One of those forms believes that each of the many million gods are just forms or representations of the same essential god. I don&#8217;t believe there is a definition of who that single god is, but I&#8217;m probably very wrong on that. .</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4419</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 16:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4419</guid>
		<description>@ Nat: If you aren&#039;t already aware of them, check to see if there are any humanist or secular humanist associations in your area.  They are essentially churches without the religion, allowing for socializing, support, and community building without requiring faith or adherence to dogma along with it like churches do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Nat: If you aren&#8217;t already aware of them, check to see if there are any humanist or secular humanist associations in your area.  They are essentially churches without the religion, allowing for socializing, support, and community building without requiring faith or adherence to dogma along with it like churches do.</p>
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		<title>By: Nat Friedman</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4418</link>
		<dc:creator>Nat Friedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 13:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4418</guid>
		<description>@mjmac - Some prominent atheists like Richard Dawkins have made an effort in recent years to convince people to be more vocal about their atheism, and a lot of online support has emerged for atheism in fora that didn&#039;t exist until a few years ago (like reddit, est. 2005).  I think this has pushed some former &quot;agnostics&quot; -- who were really secret atheists who didn&#039;t want to hurt anyone&#039;s feelings -- into the publicly-atheist column.  And maybe it&#039;s caused some formerly genuine agnostics to think harder about their actual beliefs, and to conclude that they are, in fact, atheists.

We could also speculate that eight years of evangelical Bushism strengthened the opposition culture, which became more vocal about its non-majority views.  I&#039;ve always thought that an especially dominant/oppressive main culture can breed strong subcultures, which is why you have Japanese perversion, punks in Salt Lake City, great vegetarian restaurants in Munich, etc.

Or maybe this is just the forward march of progress?  Abolitionism, women&#039;s suffrage, civil rights, feminism, gay pride, militant atheists, ...

I sort of agree with @lmb that the existence of God is unknowable, but only for certain more theoretical/mathematical definitions of God that I think most theists don&#039;t actually believe.  Most theists believe in a &quot;guy in the sky&quot; who is listening to their prayers and who cares about their lives, and who occasionally appears in our world to parcel out land and kill Egyptians and that sort of thing.

And like Xan said, there are an infinite number of unknowable things that transcend our frame of reference, so I also apply Occam here.

Also, @Xan, thanks for reminding me about Russell&#039;s Teapot, that really is great.  You might enjoy this lecture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Equfju9kJfA
Although it is a bit insulting to theists.

And whatever its downsides, one of the great things about religion is that it can provide a community infrastructure and a sense of comfort to people who need it.  Social connections to other people, sympathy, and comfort are really important to leading a happy and healthy life.  Although that community can come with negatives too -- bigotry, racism, ignorance, discouraging independent thought.

It&#039;d be great to have more supportive communities/social institutions that are non-theistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mjmac &#8211; Some prominent atheists like Richard Dawkins have made an effort in recent years to convince people to be more vocal about their atheism, and a lot of online support has emerged for atheism in fora that didn&#8217;t exist until a few years ago (like reddit, est. 2005).  I think this has pushed some former &#8220;agnostics&#8221; &#8212; who were really secret atheists who didn&#8217;t want to hurt anyone&#8217;s feelings &#8212; into the publicly-atheist column.  And maybe it&#8217;s caused some formerly genuine agnostics to think harder about their actual beliefs, and to conclude that they are, in fact, atheists.</p>
<p>We could also speculate that eight years of evangelical Bushism strengthened the opposition culture, which became more vocal about its non-majority views.  I&#8217;ve always thought that an especially dominant/oppressive main culture can breed strong subcultures, which is why you have Japanese perversion, punks in Salt Lake City, great vegetarian restaurants in Munich, etc.</p>
<p>Or maybe this is just the forward march of progress?  Abolitionism, women&#8217;s suffrage, civil rights, feminism, gay pride, militant atheists, &#8230;</p>
<p>I sort of agree with @lmb that the existence of God is unknowable, but only for certain more theoretical/mathematical definitions of God that I think most theists don&#8217;t actually believe.  Most theists believe in a &#8220;guy in the sky&#8221; who is listening to their prayers and who cares about their lives, and who occasionally appears in our world to parcel out land and kill Egyptians and that sort of thing.</p>
<p>And like Xan said, there are an infinite number of unknowable things that transcend our frame of reference, so I also apply Occam here.</p>
<p>Also, @Xan, thanks for reminding me about Russell&#8217;s Teapot, that really is great.  You might enjoy this lecture:<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Equfju9kJfA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Equfju9kJfA</a><br />
Although it is a bit insulting to theists.</p>
<p>And whatever its downsides, one of the great things about religion is that it can provide a community infrastructure and a sense of comfort to people who need it.  Social connections to other people, sympathy, and comfort are really important to leading a happy and healthy life.  Although that community can come with negatives too &#8212; bigotry, racism, ignorance, discouraging independent thought.</p>
<p>It&#8217;d be great to have more supportive communities/social institutions that are non-theistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Nil Gradisnik</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4416</link>
		<dc:creator>Nil Gradisnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4416</guid>
		<description>@miguel I&#039;m not sure I understand how the second part of the video is related to the first :) but it&#039;s funny and sad at the same time. If the video is real, props to Michael for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@miguel I&#8217;m not sure I understand how the second part of the video is related to the first <img src='http://nat.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  but it&#8217;s funny and sad at the same time. If the video is real, props to Michael for that.</p>
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		<title>By: iain</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4415</link>
		<dc:creator>iain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4415</guid>
		<description>Monotheistic hinduism is the belief that all the millions of hindu deities are just different forms of the one god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monotheistic hinduism is the belief that all the millions of hindu deities are just different forms of the one god.</p>
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		<title>By: Miguel de Icaza</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4414</link>
		<dc:creator>Miguel de Icaza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 01:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4414</guid>
		<description>Let us all reflect on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyauGeRa5T0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let us all reflect on this video:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyauGeRa5T0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyauGeRa5T0</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cat (The Marauder)</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4413</link>
		<dc:creator>Cat (The Marauder)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 22:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4413</guid>
		<description>I voted agnostic, as in my opinion it&#039;s truly impossible for us to know whether or not a deity exists. Sure, anybody can claim the existence of some space wizard and there will be no way for us to disprove them, but I believe that if such a manifestation of power exists, us, in this current state of existence and consciousness -- we probably aren&#039;t capable of &quot;seeing god&quot;.

At the University of Arizona, there have been some (seemingly) objective/non-religious studies of consciousness and the possibility of an afterlife, and possible connections to quantum physics. Stuart Hameroff, maybe? Or, maybe Gary Schwartz... either way, while it can be a little far-fetched, it&#039;s at the very least something to think about.
Check these links out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schwartz
http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/

If I remember correctly, one of their studies &quot;found&quot; that certain quantum particles which &quot;may be responsible for consciousness&quot; are still just as active after death. Which doesn&#039;t prove the existence of God, no, but maybe &quot;spirituality&quot; is just very big things happening on a very small scale. Am I even making sense anymore? :)

Sorry if I&#039;m getting a bit deep here, I&#039;ve a lot of thoughts on this issue, but no real idea how to say it. My point being, though, that I believe it is absolutely impossible for us to know &quot;what&#039;s out there&quot;, at least not while we&#039;re alive. I&#039;ve never been a religious person, I realized that God most likely does not exist when I was about 8 years old. However, that won&#039;t stop me from thinking of the infinite number of possibilities. What&#039;s out there? Most likely nothing at all.

But, I suppose we&#039;ll never know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I voted agnostic, as in my opinion it&#8217;s truly impossible for us to know whether or not a deity exists. Sure, anybody can claim the existence of some space wizard and there will be no way for us to disprove them, but I believe that if such a manifestation of power exists, us, in this current state of existence and consciousness &#8212; we probably aren&#8217;t capable of &#8220;seeing god&#8221;.</p>
<p>At the University of Arizona, there have been some (seemingly) objective/non-religious studies of consciousness and the possibility of an afterlife, and possible connections to quantum physics. Stuart Hameroff, maybe? Or, maybe Gary Schwartz&#8230; either way, while it can be a little far-fetched, it&#8217;s at the very least something to think about.<br />
Check these links out: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Hameroff</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schwartz" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Schwartz</a><br />
<a href="http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://www.consciousness.arizona.edu/</a></p>
<p>If I remember correctly, one of their studies &#8220;found&#8221; that certain quantum particles which &#8220;may be responsible for consciousness&#8221; are still just as active after death. Which doesn&#8217;t prove the existence of God, no, but maybe &#8220;spirituality&#8221; is just very big things happening on a very small scale. Am I even making sense anymore? <img src='http://nat.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Sorry if I&#8217;m getting a bit deep here, I&#8217;ve a lot of thoughts on this issue, but no real idea how to say it. My point being, though, that I believe it is absolutely impossible for us to know &#8220;what&#8217;s out there&#8221;, at least not while we&#8217;re alive. I&#8217;ve never been a religious person, I realized that God most likely does not exist when I was about 8 years old. However, that won&#8217;t stop me from thinking of the infinite number of possibilities. What&#8217;s out there? Most likely nothing at all.</p>
<p>But, I suppose we&#8217;ll never know.</p>
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		<title>By: Xan</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4412</link>
		<dc:creator>Xan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4412</guid>
		<description>@lmb

I agree with you about the existence of God being impossible to prove or disprove, but as you say the only sane choice, IMHO, is to assume it&#039;s not real until we have any evidence on the contrary.

That being said, I think this only applies to the concept of God in its most general and abstract form. All the particular religions that exist are tied to specific historical and social contexts, and I believe we have enough data and means to show that their claims of absolute truth are not actually true (because, at the very least, there&#039;d be no particular reason to give more credit to any one of them than to the others).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lmb</p>
<p>I agree with you about the existence of God being impossible to prove or disprove, but as you say the only sane choice, IMHO, is to assume it&#8217;s not real until we have any evidence on the contrary.</p>
<p>That being said, I think this only applies to the concept of God in its most general and abstract form. All the particular religions that exist are tied to specific historical and social contexts, and I believe we have enough data and means to show that their claims of absolute truth are not actually true (because, at the very least, there&#8217;d be no particular reason to give more credit to any one of them than to the others).</p>
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		<title>By: lmb</title>
		<link>http://nat.org/blog/2009/05/twitter-god-survey/comment-page-1/#comment-4411</link>
		<dc:creator>lmb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nat.org/blog/?p=870#comment-4411</guid>
		<description>@Xan: you are right about the application of Goedel&#039;s Theorem, of course. I hate it when someone knows that bit ;-)

However, it still strikes me as impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God; as defined, God is outside physical reality, and thus trying to argue within about God is prone to be, well, a question of belief, one way or the other. (See all the attempts at logically proving or disproving said existence, and how all empirical facts can be interpreted in either way too. See Kant&#039;s first critique. Though some of the logical arguments about whether prayer works or not, whether God can interact with the creation etc are quite fun.)

So, yeah, if applying Occam&#039;s Razor, we should do without. However, that is not formal proof either; it just seems useful and sane.

My conclusion indeed is that the question is unanswerable, and that unless they can make a proof one way or the other, science is better of not making a statement and claiming &quot;You know, we don&#039;t know, the question is not within our domain.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Xan: you are right about the application of Goedel&#8217;s Theorem, of course. I hate it when someone knows that bit <img src='http://nat.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>However, it still strikes me as impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God; as defined, God is outside physical reality, and thus trying to argue within about God is prone to be, well, a question of belief, one way or the other. (See all the attempts at logically proving or disproving said existence, and how all empirical facts can be interpreted in either way too. See Kant&#8217;s first critique. Though some of the logical arguments about whether prayer works or not, whether God can interact with the creation etc are quite fun.)</p>
<p>So, yeah, if applying Occam&#8217;s Razor, we should do without. However, that is not formal proof either; it just seems useful and sane.</p>
<p>My conclusion indeed is that the question is unanswerable, and that unless they can make a proof one way or the other, science is better of not making a statement and claiming &#8220;You know, we don&#8217;t know, the question is not within our domain.&#8221;</p>
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