So when I was growing up, which became the foundation for your growing up, it wasn’t so much about nerd vs jock, but meaningful vs materialistic. Same result in slamming hard stuff, and oddly enough ending up with the most self-centered generation in American history. All those hippies ending up as hedge fund managers…

I grew up in the ’80s, and was often an outsider growing up. I was the type of person who spent a lot of time in the library reading about things, and was very unathletic and disinterested in sports. Yes, I was nerd.

The good thing about growing up in the ’80s is that it was actually a very “nerd-friendly”/”nerd-positive” time in the media. And it was actually the time when things started to change a bit in the U.S. with regard to the view of “nerds. See this article:

Check this out

Heres a quote from the article:

“But the popular understanding of nerdiness–that a nerd is an uncool person–doesn’t stand the test of time. In particular, it doesn’t survive the 1980s, an era the New York Times deemed was characterized by “nerd chic.” By the middle of the go-go decade, fashion magazines touted the popularity of nerd couture–plaid plants, horn rims, and oxford shirts buttoned all the way to the top. Further, witness the proliferation of ’80s teen movies valorizing nerds: Revenge of the Nerds, Weird Science, and Real Genius, to name a few. Underlying this transformation of the nerd’s image was a transformation of the nerd’s economic status. With their entry into new high-tech industries, many nerds suddenly became millionerds.”

I dont know what the situation is in schools today with regard to nerds vs. jocks, but it still seems that we live in a society that doesnt sufficiently respect people who use their brains. Sure, its true that one can be both smart and athletic, but if a person has only been blessed by one or the other, its the one with athletic skill that is celebrated in the public schools, not the brainy kid. Thankfully, the passage of time often helps to even things out, when the smart kid gets to go out into the world and gain some respect and money.

Check out my site:

Nerd Source

I actually wasn’t trying to say say that, certainly not “necessarily”. Does it result in more non-cerebral culture quantitatively than might otherwise be present? I think the answer to that question is yes. Is it also more by overall proportion? That’s less clear, but I’ll still say yes. Will everyone necessarily respond that way? Certainly not, nor is it a given that a person will respond one way and not another. That said, people generally don’t call in votes for American Idol for hours unless they have incomes that give them leeway to allocate their time in that manner. Expendable income doesn’t inexorably lead to a less cerebral culture, but it does perhaps take more effort for people to move that way, and ultimately it’s their choice to do so (although we certainly can and should influence them to do otherwise).

I’m also not sure I see an “assault on reason”, other than the healthy asking of questions and considering of more than just the prevailing story from one interest group. In any case, I’m not sure I see what’s wrong about a “question everything” philosophy.

“And I don’t think nerd stigmatization is just a childish thing that people grow out of. The grown-up version of nerd hazing is anti-intellectualism, and I’m sorry to say it, but American culture has a strong anti-intellectual strain. The US is not alone in that, for sure, but it’s my country and it worries me.”

I disagree that the two are related and see it more as a “question everything” response, often coupled with a differing cost-benefit analysis.

“But wouldn’t it be good if more of our best & brightest college graduates aspired to be actual engineers, instead of financial engineers?”

It takes all kinds. Certainly there’d be far less home ownership if it weren’t for financial companies; paying for a home with cash is nearly impossible without a several-decades-long loan, and as long as you’re careful (a quality lacking in many homeowners and loan companies of late, to be sure, but one that is being learned in spades by everyone now) a loan is usually a better use of your money than letting it sit (invested, but still relatively idle) and accumulate. I disagree that financial engineers are less worthy than “actual” engineers. (Also worth noting is that many graduates with physics degrees — actual engineers, that is — go into the financial industry because their skills and ability to work with equations are necessary to that industry.) Last, if you’re worried about there being too many people in finance, I think recent events are going to substantially depress how many enter those fields for awhile.

I don’t know what you mean by financial engineer, but there are a lot of real engineers in the United States like in NASA, department of defense, google, microsoft, oracle and numerous small companies. I think there are going to be plenty of companies coming in for the green job. I think the number of companies and entreprenuers are a lot in the US. I think they still create a lot of technologies and most other countries usually fully copy them are expand them these days. When I was seeing this website CrunchBase.com, there were a ton of companies ranging from 1+ employees and most of them are in the US dedicated to building web browser for mobile phones, os for mobile phones, twitter, search and you name it. The amount of VC capital a entrepreneur can raise in US is staggering because Americans are more willing to take a risk, which leads to more innovation. I don’t think you can secure a 1$ million dollar capital easier in other countries compared with the US. But on the other hand, this optimism and aggressiveness can lead to some kind of bubble for sure though like the .com and the current financial bubble.

Having lived almost all my life in the US, and now a couple of years in Germany, I am fascinated by the cultural differences between countries. I always considered myself to be a pretty open-minded American, but there is no substitute for living in another culture to challenge your assumptions about how people and societies work. That has been a great experience for me, and so this blog entry was an attempt to share a part of what I’ve learned with you.

Cultures are different, and there are things that are wonderful and beautiful about one culture that may be entirely different from the things that are positive about another.

@Jose – I like what you said. There’s no reason you can’t be both a brilliant engineer and a great athlete. And there are a lot great heroes who were both intellectuals and athletes, like da Vinci and Thomas Jefferson.

Also, great thoughts from Jeff Walden. But Jeff, I think you go too far in implying that expendable income necessarily leads to the trivialization of culture. Nerd stigmatization is not just a childish thing that people grow out of. The grown-up version of nerd hazing is anti-intellectualism, and I’m sorry to say it, but American culture has a strong anti-intellectual strain. The US is not alone in that, for sure, but it’s my country and it worries me. Researching, understanding, listening, and questioning are not valued activities — this is what Al Gore called the “assault on reason.” Can’t we be rich and rational? It’s too depressing to think that there aren’t examples of this.

Also, Jeff, thanks for the reference to Ricardo’s difficult idea, I hadn’t read that before. And to both you and @John, of course the US makes things and is a wonderful country. But wouldn’t it be good if more of our best & brightest college graduates aspired to be actual engineers, instead of financial engineers?

Many nerd women find nerd men quite attractive, thank you

In Germany, the distinction between “nerd” and “jocks” may not be as clear-cut as in the US (and being popular here depends way less on sports – our jocks don’t have to be athletes!), but if you spend your teenage years reading books on quantum physics, going to Star Trek meet-ups and writing (bad) poetry, this is frowned on just as much as being a “nerd” in the U.S. Studying engineering is considered OK (hey, they make loads of money, these engineers, or so you hear), but a genuine INTEREST in it BEFORE college – that’s something quite different. And, please don’t believe that engineers aren’t belittled at all. The following saying is a nice reminder that engineers aren’t exactly considered cool:
“Karohemd und Samenstau – der Mann studiert Maschinenbau.”
“Checkered shirt and lack of sex (=very rough translation, no idea how to literally translate “Samenstau”) – the man is studying engineering.”

@John,
you are absolutely right when you US are the country where the technological achievements you listed were achieved, and there are various reasons for that.
The first one is surely the ease of making business in US compared to, say, Europe, due to the different regulations. US is literally a country built with the idea of making business on everything (I don’t judge this, just pointing it out).
The second reason of this success is that US is a huge importer of culture. Many of those achievements, especially in research, but also in industry, were, and still are, obtained also thanks to engineers and scientists coming from Europe, China, India, Japan and other countries. It is quite evident if you enter research centres, univerisities or just take a look at the increasing requests for specialized workers from the industry.

About the economical data you cite, they’re true, but not useful to a fair comparison: as you said Germany and Japan are a lot smaller than US, so it is obvious that the size of the economy is smaller there.